Directory listing problem

[Black Pearl Studios]

Jay,

Since Steamcast doesn't have intro file capability, I have found a work around that works for now. My stream is listed on the Icecast directory, but the Steamcast directory will not allow the server to list. The error message is... expected .nsv extension for video/nsv mime type. The problem is that I need to have a .m3u extension in order for the work around to function.

Is it possible to let .m3u extensions, with video/nsv mime type, list in the Steamcast directory? The .m3u file allows me to pass a short intro file, using one server, and the actual stream URL, on another server, to the viewer.

Any help you can give me, would be appreciated.

[Jay]

That would be just a hack, I do not think it is wise to alter extensions as not all players will be able to stream it correctly.

[Black Pearl Studios]

Your directory uses .m3u extensions for the link to the stream. If a player can't interpret .m3u extensions, why would the Steamcast directory use them to pass the stream url?

The idea is to allow .m3u extensions as well as .nsv... at least until you have the time to implement intro file capability into Steamcast. I'm trying to keep our stream free to the viewer and the best way to do that is to sell a couple 30 second ad spots in the intro position. I could allow Steamcast to list, but that would allow too many viewers to bypass the intro and my potential advertisers wouldn't get a high enough level of exposure. Being listed in the Icecast directory only, would cut down the number of viewers and be just as bad.

The cost of continuing to broadcast the high quality content is very high. Not to mention the bandwidth costs. Allowing the .m3u extensions, as well as the .nsv etensions, will allow the sale of intro ads to defray the cost of licensing agreements with the film companies.

Let me know what you think. I'm not trying to hammer on you, just trying to explain the problem we are facing. We decided to do it legally... We are hearing that the television and film undustries are getting ready to pounce on internet streaming of non-licensed tv shows and movies. We didn't want to be in their cross-hairs when it happens. Remember it is 250,000 and/or 5 years for each instance.

[Jay]

Honestly, steamcast just does not account for that much traffic. The point is kind of moot because your going to receive much more traffic from shoutcast then from either icecast or steamcast at this time. As much as I want steamcast to be bigger I cannot in good conscious lead you to believe that steamcast's yp matters that much to your advertiser.

I understand all too well the plight of the average internet broadcaster. I personally believe you will do better with in-stream advertising rather then intro file advertising. Steamcast can even give you advertiser hard numbers of the amount of listeners their ads pull.

I believe that if you need an intro-file feature bad enough right now, then perhaps using the SHOUTcast server would be best. I have been looking into the use of an intro file and in all honesty it is quite hackish the way it's done in SHOUTcast. There is no format agnostic way to achieve it. The fact is you risk breaking non-Winamp player support by adding it. As much as I love Winamp I must remain true to what this is really about. That is providing a streaming solutions that is open to as many media players as possible. Your arguement that m3u use by steamcast should make this acceptable is flawed because some players do not stream m3u or other playlist type files in a recursive way, which is what you are relying on. The risk is too great that if this becomes some sort of accepted form of doing this that we could potentially exclude players because they work differently. If an intro-file solution presents itself to me then I will take it into consideration, but in all honesty I think alternate forms of advertising should be persued before attempting to hack a solution together in haste.

[djspinnercee]

I agree with Jay -- the SHOUTcast intro and backup option is a serious hack -- you would be better off hosting your own m3u/pls/ram/asx, etc file to launch your stream -- this way you won't be bound by the severe limitations of the intro being the same samplerate as the stream, etc ... as a matter of fact, if you use your own launch file, your intro can be any "format" supported by the player that opens the launch file.

One simple example would be to have your custom launch file point to an on demand intro file first, then to your stream mount.

[Black Pearl Studios]

Honestly, steamcast just does not account for that much traffic. The point is kind of moot because your going to receive much more traffic from shoutcast then from either icecast or steamcast at this time. As much as I want steamcast to be bigger I cannot in good conscious lead you to believe that steamcast's yp matters that much to your advertiser.

I understand all too well the plight of the average internet broadcaster. I personally believe you will do better with in-stream advertising rather then intro file advertising. Steamcast can even give you advertiser hard numbers of the amount of listeners their ads pull.

I believe that if you need an intro-file feature bad enough right now, then perhaps using the SHOUTcast server would be best. I have been looking into the use of an intro file and in all honesty it is quite hackish the way it's done in SHOUTcast. There is no format agnostic way to achieve it. The fact is you risk breaking non-Winamp player support by adding it. As much as I love Winamp I must remain true to what this is really about. That is providing a streaming solutions that is open to as many media players as possible. Your arguement that m3u use by steamcast should make this acceptable is flawed because some players do not stream m3u or other playlist type files in a recursive way, which is what you are relying on. The risk is too great that if this becomes some sort of accepted form of doing this that we could potentially exclude players because they work differently. If an intro-file solution presents itself to me then I will take it into consideration, but in all honesty I think alternate forms of advertising should be persued before attempting to hack a solution together in haste.

Thank you for the honest answer. I understand where you're coming from on this and wouldn't want to try and sway you from your intended course. I tried the shoutcast solution and had very poor results. Then I tried on demand with icecast and, honestly, it is the only server that would serve the files flawlessly.

So far advertisers are reluctant to do in stream ads, but are very receptive to the intro ad idea. We keep on trying to sell in stream ads, but the intro ads could begin to change advertisers minds on Internet TV and make in stream ads easier to sell. It's the same battle everyone faces.

One simple example would be to have your custom launch file point to an on demand intro file first, then to your stream mount.

Already done. To keep from using up too much of my website bandwidth, I am using icecast on demand at the CO where my media servers are.