Stream Ripping

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:50 am

This topic has interested me for awhile now and wondered what broadcasters think about it.
Can You prevent it?
How do you know when a ripper is on board?

It did not trouble me until I read in some topic that "rippers" are unseen as "listener count" ,but still take up a listener slot,thus preventing genuine listeners getting on board.

One station will ban if anyone is listening via winampMPEG/2 as this is supposedly a ripper.

The method I tried was as follows I opened my tail log and listener count whilst broadcasting
and found "3" using the above MPEG/2 "listening"but not listen whilst 2 remaining using winamp 2.9 were showing,right or wrong the MPEG/2 merchants were banned.
So anybody know of any other player we should regard as suspect?

Post by **Jay** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 9:46 am

Typically anything with Streamripper in it, if someone is connected twice with Winamp and then a second player named "Freeamp/4.0" that would be a streamripper, and anything else you don't like about the user agent, to be honest there really is not a 100% full proof way to know if you are being streamripped, it's the nature of the open environment in which Nullsoft chose to distribute the stream.

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 11:34 am

Thanks Jay,something else I have noticed within the tail log at the end,is that some loggers have (p: 0) and some have (p: 2)
any signifigance?
Just to clear a point if the logger does not show on the normal listener count ,but shows up in the tail log,what does that signify?is it ripping by stealth?

Post by **Jay** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:23 pm

P stands for pointer, it's not significant unless you write third party utilities for SHOUTcast.

not sure what you mean by your second question, there is no way to make your connection to the server "stealth"

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:56 pm

Maybe a clearer clarification would be to say the certain ips whilst showing on the listener count,do not show up within the log file,and vice versa at times,yet I see others log on and log off and they show up on both logs.

Post by **Jay** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:45 pm

could you post an example of this from your log or whatever sources you are seeing this from?

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:33 am

Sorry for the delay was away.
Ok had tail log on shoutcast open,and listener count.
ip no.1 touched and showed on the listener count
ip no 2 touched but never showed on the listener count?
Saw it only once so maybe there is a logical explaination.

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:05 am

Anyone know what sort of player a "dr" is?

Post by **Jay** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:18 am

dr? never heard of it.

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:53 am

- <LISTENER>
<HOSTNAME>xx.xxx.xxx.xxx</HOSTNAME>
<USERAGENT>dr</USERAGENT>
In my XTML??? :(

Post by **Jay** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:08 am

well if you don't like it, kick it and see what happens

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:12 am

Crossfaded a few jingles and away she blew.....a jack(the ripper methinks)

one to note .

Necromancer · Post by **Necromancer** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:24 pm

Why wouldn't you want someone to StreamRip? Unless your SHOUTcast Server is full a lot (when in that case you should get more slots for it), I would think it'd be great if someone was recording your shows. GJ to them.

Now my station actually has a bot that you can set to record, zip, and FTP the file to the download archives (http://www.planetesports.com/downloads/) for viewing. All you need to do is add an entry for it.

Post by **Jay** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:37 pm

depending on what you broadcast you may welcome it. If you broadcast live shows or live mix sets then I would imagine that would be more something you would be for as it shows a fan base for YOU the actual host or DJ, otherwise some stations which just play music all day from static files will find it irritating and feel as though they are being used in replacement to an mp3 file trading system. Plus as you point out, if the server gets full and you have 5 slots that are taken because some of your users are ripping you will be even more likely to kick. Especially when they use those programs that connect twice, once to listen and the other to record

madmick · Post by **madmick** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 12:05 pm

I did finish a reply ,but was told invalid session.

Stream rippers by default are stream vultures,not alone do they have free software,they also like the idea of the station supplementing their activities ie. 2 connections instead of 1 which the station has to pay for.
Free music files,non of which they want to pay for or ever would?
unlike the station,web costs,cd&vinyl costs not to mention the stream server cost and the legal broadcast costs.

Is there an answer?maybe?low bitrate streaming I believe is the most effective,for obvious reasons.

I also believe that broadcasters who agree to stream at 24kbps
should be exempt from all charges as it gives artistes who perhaps are not so well known a chance to air their music
although it maybe ripped it is of little use at low quality.

Also may I suggest that bitrates starting at 128kbps be made subscdription only
with the facility to allow only the subscribed ip to connect.